Some poor airplane handling skills I have observed.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

Ignorance of how the airplane systems work and ignorance of how to operate the airplane can only be due to incompetence on the part of the training organization.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

That is true SSU, however the issues we are discussing are basic flying skills and basic airplane knowledge.

Before your time in aviation the PPL course minimum time was 30 hours and many of us received our PPL license in that amount of time.

Not only were we taught properly it was in tail wheel airplanes not kiddy car airplanes.

Today there is an added 15 hours to teach the basics.

If the student is given their license and do not understand the basics then who is to blame, the school or the tooth fairy?

[Chuck Ellsworth]

Well as to the 30 hours versus to day's 45 hours for the PPL there were not as many rules and regulations requiring the students to learn them.


We concentrated on teaching flying, instead of paper work which resulted in better flying training.

[Slick Goodlin]

[quote author=Chuck Ellsworth link=topic=1765.msg5931#msg5931 date=1453492186]
the 30 hours versus to day's 45 hours for the PPL[/quote]
Hey Chuck, genuine question: how did the required syllabus and flight test differ from what we have now?  For example, the CARs insist on five hours instrument time, three hours dual cross country and five hours solo cross country prior to having your PPL signed off.  That's thirteen hours right there, was it mandated back in the Fleet Canuck days?

[Colonel]

[quote]the focus of the first say, 5/10 or 15 hours?[/quote]

The first flights in the aircraft involve the student
LOOKING OUTSIDE at The Big Attitude Indicator.

You know.  The horizon.

This lesson is called Attitudes and Movements and
must be mastered before moving on to the fancy
stuff.

Ideally, an ab initio trainer should not have a
vacuum pump or attitude indicator or heading
indicator or nav radios, which merely distract
the student from what he should be doing:

LOOKING OUTSIDE

What a student needs to learn:

ATTITUDE plus POWER equals PERFORMANCE

[url=http://www.avweb.com/news/eyeofex/182210-1.html]http://www.avweb.com/news/eyeofex/182210-1.html[/url]

For example, after takeoff, the student should
set a climb configuration: cowl on the horizon
(or slightly below), full power.  After it settles
down (and ONLY after it settles down) then do
you look at the airspeed and VSI and altimeter.

While an aircraft must have an airspeed and
altimeter, I believe that a VSI can be distracting
at first, and like an AI or DG can do more harm
than good, at first.

LOOK OUTSIDE.

By 10 hours, the student should have maneuvering
skills adequate to go solo in a tailwheel aircraft.

Post-solo, he should switch to a different, more
advanced aircraft, for the second half of his primary
flight training involving cross-country flight, instrument
flight, radio navigation, aerobatics, formation, etc.

While at the PPL level I expect the student to master
all of the above individually, I don't expect them to
be able to combine them, like instrument formation
in cloud, or formation aerobatics.  That's for the CPL.

PS  It is really really weird to use the same aircraft
for pre-solo and CPL training.  Like an Edsel or F-35,
it will not do anything well or efficiently.

[Liquid Charlie]

by 2025 all new aircraft will be produced without flight controls --  >:D

  But seriously all professional pilot groups now state cfit is under control (705, 121) and no longer an issue in most parts of the world. The new number one item is "stick and rudder" skills and the lack there of. I know this is due to automation but not having them in the first place really puts one sucking the hind tit, as they would say in cow shit valley (and that's coming from a farm boy from Pembroke -- haha)

I actually had a young man ask me a cpl days ago if you put the out of wind wing down in a xwind if you were landing with a downwind component. He was confused because I use ailerons on the ground to help steer the a/c when taxiing. 

[ScudRunner-d95]

To play devils advocate for just a minute, I think the increase in training time of today's students can be partially attributed to airport congestion and transiting to the practice zone.

I recall from waay back when Barney was beating me with a yard stick out of Delta Airpark the ease at which we fired up taxied out and would be airborne in no time. Contrast to when I started my IFR and twin training there would be line ups just to do run ups at ZBB, then once airborne needing to traverse all the way to the Glenn Valley practice area just to perform the required airwork.

On a one hour sortie you probably "wasted" at the very least .3 every flight, if a weak area was discovered there was very minimal time to work on it before being required to turn for home.

So to the new pilots out there looking for a flying school I would recommend you find a small sleepy airport and even sleepier school. Finding such an arrangement would for sure save you money as you can get right down to business, not to mention the pressure to get back ASAP would allow you and your instructor more time to iron out trouble areas.