Flight Planning basic level

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Liquid_Charlie
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I see that they had another A/C (pa28) run out of fuel. Lucky bugger made the runway in Thunder Bay. He was coming from St Andrews
Fortunately, the pilot was able to glide the aircraft onto the runway, and the plane had enough momentum to continue onto the taxiway. It was then towed to the apron.

The plane's two fuel tanks were found to be empty after an inspection.
I know nothing about a PA 28 but they likely cruise around 100 kts and it's about a 3+15 minute flight. What is the endurance, I'm guess about 4 hours. That looks like a "legal" flight but right on the limit. I would be doing a tech stop for sure.

I saw it so much recently with "new" pilots planning trips based on min fuel and the real reality not knowing how much fuel is in the tanks except for the initial departure. My experience has shown me that "vintage" piston light aircraft can vary in fuel burns for a large number of reasons that are subtle enough to cause grief. The obsession with tying to make the rules work and be "legal" can tip to the unsafe but perceived legal area and pilots press ignorantly on.

I must say I find no reason for someone to run out of fuel to the point of emergency but it continues to happen regularly.

In this case, if the aircraft did have 4 hours of fuel and a 100 kts it just makes the +45 minute thing a an unexpected 10 kt headwind runs him out of fuel. Why are schools hammering this shit into people's heads. Even with GPS flight planning is not fallible. I live by my tag line -- :mrgreen: I always asked guys what was more dangerous, a few pounds extra or running out of fuel short of the runway. Seems pretty simple to me after applying today's "buzz phrase" -- "risk analysis"

I still ask the question "WHY??" jeezus I always had enough fuel to get lost, find myself and make the trip. It seems that teaching "black and white" (no racism intended, just shows you how fucked today's concept of "social media justice is ) where grey is predominant just doesn't work all the time (can that be perceived as a reference to the "south" - damn ).

Ramblings with a little drift from an old guy -- :o


"black air has no lift - extra fuel has no weight"
Slick Goodlin
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Holy cow, is that why the PA28 needed a tow off the runway the other day? I figured he broke a nosewheel steering spring or something less important than, you know, running out of gas.
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Scudrunner
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Many types of PA-28

Cherokee
Warriors
Archers
Arrows
Dakota’s
-180
-235

Plugging in St. Andrews to Thunder Bay into ForeFlight shows 320nm direct.

A Cherokee has 36 Gal usable fuel, and book shows 110 knots cruise speed so probably more like 100kts.

Call the burn 8g/h

Put a 10 knot headwind (giggity) now your cruising at 90 knots and not perfectly direct with some deviations etc and ya mission accomplished you’re a hero.
5 out of 2 Pilots are Dyslexic.
JW Scud
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I knew a guy who flew a Beech Duchess non-stop from Winnipeg to Ottawa. I guess he had good tailwinds.
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Colonel
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Was that Dennis? You don't have to worry about him doing that again - OFC
fired him after they filled it up with usable fuel.

I thought he was a really skilled stick. I hired him. You ever fly with him?
Now that he's dead, I guess I can tell some stories. There are some other
great stories about OFC & Duchesses but I have to wait for more people
to die first.

Remember Dennis's icing flight that went to the Tribunal? Lorna DeBliquy
and I were great friends despite the fact that an ancestor of mine had an
ancestor of hers hung. These things happen. I was very fond of Lorna (she's
dead now, of course) and I thought she was the sweetest little old lady, but
she hated Dennis with a passion, which I thought was a tad unfair.

This is my Dad taking Lorna (right seat) for a flight in the Mooney. Me in
echelon. I always liked Lorna. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lorna_deBlicquy

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Dennis reminded me of my son's black Lab, also named Dennis, but after
K&R. Loveable and great fun to be around, but not always the best decision
making. I never hated Dennis or my son's black Lab, despite their short-comings.
That's probably why I could never be a bureaucrat or a Democrat. I just don't
hate enough.

Like that little old dentist that flew the Lear off his grass strip. I am sure
he was hated by all sorts of people, but I think he was one of the coolest people
I have ever met. He's up there with Freddy and Snort, IMHO.

Image

Image

Hope you like all the photos. A four bar once made the mistake of telling me,
years ago, that he hated me posting photos. So, I try to post as many as I can.

Fuck you, Chris.
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Liquid_Charlie
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I never had the pleasure of meeting Lorna DeBliquy but always heard nothing but great things about her. I knew Dick very well and flew with him (total irony, checking him out on the 748) He was a gentleman and an amazing stick on the 2Otter. He got set up by "younger" generation group and got dealt a dirty in the end. There was a conspiracy at 7F to keep the "old farts" out of the 748 and they literally ditched and treated the pilots who built that company like shit and gave them the frozen mukluk up the ass. Dick was one who this happened to. I know the he and Lorna parted ways but I do think there was also a shared respect.

It pisses me off to see the ambition of new pilots trample and disrespect their seniors. If they survive they will one day experience the same, I guess karma takes a while sometimes. I think sometimes the worst cancer in aviation is the loss of the camaraderie that I experienced when I first started flying. We always helped and supported each other, no matter who you worked for. The shit was left to the companies and all pilots stuck together. The present weenies (there are exceptions, of course) all seem to want to point fingers, squeal, turn in anonymous reports and act shocked when someone actually gets the job done. It has gone from "we will find a way to get the job done" to "you can't do that" -- jeeeezus sometimes newer is not better.
"black air has no lift - extra fuel has no weight"
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Colonel
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Joined: Wed Jan 15, 2020 10:02 pm
Location: Over The Runway

new pilots trample and disrespect their seniors
It has always puzzled me that young people think that knowledge
is unimportant in a knowledge-based vocation. Literally, what you
know can make the difference between you crashing and dying, or
not. A tiny morsel that you recall from decades ago, can affect
your decision today in a very beneficial manner. You know. You
get to be alive at the end of the day, which I thought was nice.

Unlike the young pilots these days, I was always very interested in
not crashing and not dying. I think I accomplished that by learning
from the senior pilots around me, who might have sometimes hurt
my feelings (really) but knew far more than I did, so it was worth
it, to me.

When young pilots today crash, it simply can't be their fault.



PS. If you know about Bradley and the Twotters (sounds like a 50's
doo-wop group) you remember the two guys who got into a fist fight
on final? They fired the right seat and demoted the left seat (my buddy)
to right seat. This is decades ago ... he joined Jazz many, many years
ago and must be single digit now. Or shit, maybe even retired. Fuck,
we're old.

He and I did our CPLs at the same time, decades ago. For the 300nm
x/c I remember he flew east, and sat for a week looking at cloud. I
flew west. Sarnia, or thereabouts. Remember the airport where some
farmer got pissed and built a silo at the end of the runway? I think I
landed there. Didn't hit the silo.

Reminds me of landing at Toronto Island from the east. First you slalom
around the smoke stacks, then the @sshole sailboat masts on short final.
There's no @sshole, like a Toronto @sshole. They are the pro's.
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Liquid_Charlie
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They fired the right seat and demoted the left seat (my buddy)
to right seat.
I was there then, yup some pretty entertaining times - I had that little prick (the F/O) as an oiler -- we called him the toast master since melting down APU's was a bit of a past time for him -- haha -- aviation does have a certain amount of built in "peter principal" which always left me scratching my head.

Image
"black air has no lift - extra fuel has no weight"
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Colonel
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Joined: Wed Jan 15, 2020 10:02 pm
Location: Over The Runway

I had that little prick (the F/O) as an oiler
Small world. My buddy in the left seat was a really reasonable,
easy-going guy. I couldn't imagine what the Hell happened.
Chuck Ellsworth
Posts: 334
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2020 4:25 pm

Wow time sure fly's, I last saw Dick and Lorna in 1964 in Wawa Ont.

They were both nice people.

It pisses me off to see the ambition of new pilots trample and disrespect their seniors.
The problem with the young ones is they don't know what they don't know because of their inexperience.
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